[quote author=seekinghga link=topic=422.msg3475#msg3475 date=1242730495]I think that a lot of the problem with crime and violence in today's society can be attributed to "sparing the rod." I mean, if your kid steals candy and you punish them, not by spanking, but by putting them in "time-out," there is no discipline achieved. Next they will be visiting prostitutes and owning guns. (No, I do not extrapolate idly, I merely read my local paper.) What do you do for that? Time Out? Children must be given the message that being "bad" (or the societal equivalent) is to be eschewed, and this must be done in any way possible. Time-out might work for some, but it might not. If it does not, then I feel we should go to the spanking. Remember, you are not to be your child's FRIEND, especially in younger children. I know this is harder for the mother than the father in most cases. But, think about it: do you remember when you were 2 or 4 years old? Of course not, and neither will your children, but their behavior IS a continuum, even if it is not remembered HOW it got to such-and-such a state.[/quote]Well said, seekingha. I share this view, though I would say smacking is OK but spanking is not, and you should never smack a child in anger.
But this view is not widely shared, so by and large I'd say there is no effective sanction imposed upon children, some of whom grow up having been trained into thinking they can do anything they like. This then creates difficulties within education and for society as a whole, plus of course life-changing or even life-threatening difficulties for the offenders themselves.
I see this in microscosm in my own home. When our two children were young, they would misbehave in some way, and I'd give them a playful little smack and say "no" with a smile on my face. But my wife wouldn't do this, because she thought it was wrong. Then they'd play up and push it and push it until she got angry, then she'd smack them too hard and it all ended in tears.
At the other end of the scale I'd say torture is a useful exercise to consider. We all know it's wrong to inflict pain. But imagine you've got an hour before the bomb goes off. It's somewhere in the city, maybe at the football stadium, maybe in a mall. The culprit is in front of you, and you want him to tell you where the bomb is, so you can evacuate the area. I would inflict that pain. It's wrong, and I know it's wrong, but it's the lesser of two evils. If I don't commit this evil, I will be permitting a far greater evil to occur. It's my responsibility, nobody else's, and I will not shirk it.
What I think people miss is that it isn't a black and white world. Sometimes you have to do something that's wrong in order to do what's right. Women seem to have difficulty with this, as demonstrated by absent-father children who on average are more likely to be involved in trouble. It was epitomised by The Simpsons episode where Marge said two wrongs don't make a right and Homer said two wrongs do make a right. I think they do. That's why we have crime and punishment.