Intolerance does separate people; but how about me wanting to 'reach' consensus with you? Intolerance is 'put aside' is it not? ( Our world view over laps, much shared aspects; it's our personal past experience and thoughts that differ, and unique; we need to 'rise above', and tolerate each others 'differences'.) ;D
I am me and you are you. We can agree on somethings, but I will still be me. Some of the information or thoughts how ever you want to label them you post I can not agree with or in some cases understand. Others I can. Such is life. You have a right to believe what you want and I the same. The difference is if we start making demands that one or the other change to our way of thinking. That is intolerance. You want to reach concensus with me. That is fine, but we will still be us. We could never agree on everthing. So lets rejoice on what we can agree on and set aside what we can't. Life is to short to waste it on hate. Peace!
[quote author=SWM link=topic=2215.msg16129#msg16129 date=1312544482]
I think the use of the terms unconscious mind and conscious mind are misleading in this context.
there is no "thing" that is the unconcious mind, what we think of and describe as unconscious mind is the brain functioning outside of awareness/consciousness. Similarly there is no "thing" that is conscious mind, what we think of as conscious mind is the brain functioning in awareness/concsiousness.
When you pay attention to your feet you become conscious of your feet. Your feet where always being attended to by the brain but not in your awareness/ conscious mind. Similarly with language formation, decision making, involuntary/voluntary reactions. Anything that happens in conscious mind (awareness) has already happened in the brain.
My view is that the conscious mind lives inside of the unconscious mind, like a circle inside a larger circle. Whatever the smaller circle covers on the larger circle is what we are conscious of, but ... whatever we can be conscious of .. even the words on this page are the result of an unconscious process. After all, it's what tells your conscious mind that the feet you see are both yours and feet as well.
[quote author=SWM link=topic=2215.msg16104#msg16104 date=1312313150]
I am in agreement with enigma's post but want to add that conscious thought is only a shadow of the actual processing which is carried out by the central nervous system. your brain is what processes the information. thought and the conscious awareness of of this processing is a shadow or reflection of the brains functioning. deciscions and beliefs are formed in the brain and consciousness is simply reflecting that processing.
...is similar to this, except that "thought" is the output of a subconscious process with a purpose ... to be monitored and checked by the conscious mind.
In my view, that's the whole point of the conscious mind --- to keep and "eye" on the unconscious mind and tell it to correct itself when required.
To the original question: Is believing done with thought?
This is the way I see it :
Stage 1. A belief is created when the unconscious mind presents the conscious mind with evidence that the conscious mind will accept as sufficient proof that the belief is valid. This can be thought, emotion, sense impression, whatever unconscious process output the conscious mind will say "yes" rather than "no" to.
So, the core process of believing could be described as process of accepting what the unconscious mind tells us.
I don't think we 'subliminally believe' so much as we don't put much or any effort into being skeptical and validating the information the unconscious mind sends the conscious mind. The closest that I think we can get to 'subliminally believing' is a rubber stamp of approval, which of course, didn't seem important at the time it's not significant and/ or failed to make an significant impression on us to remember actually making the decision later.
Clarification: I may have misunderstood sakoz's use of the term 'subliminally believing'. In the paragraph above, I refer to 'subliminal belief creation' only. As sakoz uses in terms of pattern matching to perception from memory, I pretty much agree with that.
Stage 2. The belief becomes 'invisible' and does it's dirty deeds from behind the scenes.
I didn't see Shawn's reply (above) till to-day.
He wrote: "Stage 2. The belief becomes 'invisible' and does it's dirty deeds from behind the scenes."
That's what I call "subliminal belief"; 'behind the scenes'; covert; unrecognized. out-of-awareness.
Excellent thread. First the thought second the analysis of the thought third the replacement of the thought as a belief. I feel you gave the thought value and it's a thought called belief. What brings a unconscious thought to the conscious? Am to infer the conscious mind can access the unconcious? pljames
[quote author=Enigma link=topic=2215.msg16083#msg16083 date=1312253378]
Yes and no. The answer really depends on what exactly you mean by "thought". Some beliefs are formed by conscious thought: you consciously weigh the evidence and make a decision on the truth value of the information. If you accept the info as true, a belief is formed. You can also have unconscious beliefs. For example, do you believe that Hitler had nipples? Of course you do, all humans have nipples. You obviously believe this statement even though you may have never consciously entertained the idea of Hitler's nipples.