Introduction to the psychopathic life

SWM

May 2008
2,314
1
hi vana,

you make some interesting points although these are not new points and they are not specific to psychopaths.
also the term psychopath is not a recognised clinical term any more, psychopath is now classified as personality disorder.

the points that you seem to be making are 1. a certain individuals have been labelled due to their experiences, beliefs, values and behaviour. 2. that these people should have repsected rights to their expereinces, beliefs, values and behaviours.
3. that the experience, beliefs, values and behaviours that are used as diagnostic criteria are a collection of beliefs, behaviours, values and experiences that all the "normal" people have.


i would also like to echo hortonpilots sentiment: as we all have the right to our own free will and you have the right to be destructive to your self and your environment we also have the right as a community and as individuals to protect ourselves from you and your destructiveness be that by incarceration or ostracism.

if you protest about our right to isolate you it is a protest against your own rights to isolate yourself.
 

SWM

May 2008
2,314
1
[quote author=hortonpilot link=topic=1167.msg6321#msg6321 date=1258762657]
SWM,
"
The diagnostic criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder (DSM-IV-TR 301.22):"

What is the source?
Reading .

Interesting this as it shows being an arse is just not bad luck.
Happens because of a person's history.
Not much consolation when you are on the receiving end.

Horton
[/quote]hi horton the source is the DSM, it is the DSM criteria for anti-social personality disorder
 
Nov 2009
8
0
[quote author=hortonpilot link=topic=1167.msg6327#msg6327 date=1258774760]
Vana,

you don't mention and almost excuse the impact on the victims,why?[/quote]
Victimology is slave-morality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master-slave_morality

You reduce it all to the theoretical and don't consider it from the point of actual consequences. These people are not pranksters or on a girls night-out, but individuals who harm and degrade the lives of others as you say by their choosing.
I have not intended to reduce anything to the theoretical; if I have, I have failed -- completely, to present what I want to show. I intend to reduce everything to the real, without frame: to a root-reality prior to and without apprehension or remorse.

I give the cultural links to the Marlon Brando scene etc to show that I am talking about 'freedom of will' not about violence. I am talking about Ernest Shackleton, not Peter Sutcliffe!

Mind you as i said earlier sociopaths like the one-way street and the jails are full of people who have the strongest evidence against them who protest their innocence.
The double standard is what interests me, that a person is prepared to harm another yet wishes a sympathetic treatment.

I say let the victims have their way and let justice be served from the victims point of view.
I take the civilized, or progressive view: anti-prison. Although it doesn't get much air-time on TV, the anti-prison movement is actually well developed: it has religious precedent in the Quakers, Amish, and Mennonites, and a secular history in anarchism, the "freeman/sovereignty movement", and Continental post-structuralism.

Seems you have a politically correct stance towards those who make certain choices and almost elevate them to some point of status?
We all have the same status: dirt.

[quote author=SWM link=topic=1167.msg6328#msg6328 date=1258804468]
you make some interesting points although these are not new points and they are not specific to psychopaths.
also the term psychopath is not a recognised clinical term any more, psychopath is now classified as personality disorder.[/quote]
ASPD, sociopathy, psychopathy; as you like.

the points that you seem to be making are 1. a certain individuals have been labelled due to their experiences, beliefs, values and behaviour. 2. that these people should have repsected rights to their expereinces, beliefs, values and behaviours.
3. that the experience, beliefs, values and behaviours that are used as diagnostic criteria are a collection of beliefs, behaviours, values and experiences that all the "normal" people have.
My deconstruction of psychopathy/ASPD is based on the method in this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbx4m5b7KLU

"1,2,3" Not exactly. The character of the psychopath is a religious or philosophical position. It recognizes that:

Morality, reality, social norms; it's all made up!

'They were only fooling.'

Society represents slave morality; the criteria of psychopathy identifies people who are not swayed by bureaucratic-fascism (my word for industrial-technological society). Free-agents are a danger to the system. The system labels these self-motivated persons as sick and drugs and incarcerates them; something similar went on in the Soviet system too,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punitive_psychiatry_in_the_Soviet_Union#Reaction_by_the_World_Psychiatric_Association

Here are two light and short clips to help you better wrap your mind around what it means to be free,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q95kX_EP2Nk (Bill Hicks)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvt-xPlj4M0 (Aaron Russo)

i would also like to echo hortonpilots sentiment: as we all have the right to our own free will and you have the right to be destructive to your self and your environment we also have the right as a community and as individuals to protect ourselves from you and your destructiveness be that by incarceration or ostracism.

if you protest about our right to isolate you it is a protest against your own rights to isolate yourself.
Being free doesn't mean hurting others. That is what the system wants you to believe. Freedom VS safety is a false dichotomy, it was set up by Anglo-American think-tanks back in the 90s.
 

SWM

May 2008
2,314
1
to reiterate nothing you are presenting is new and none of it is specific to psychopathic personalities.

you seem to want to reclaim the label of psychopath and attribute the ideas of freedom, individuality, creativity, spontaneity etc etc to this label.

all of these attibutes that you are claiming make up the psychopathic personality are also present in the general population. a point you have made yourself in your op.

i am not sure why you want a label for yourself, but the label you have chosen has connotations of causing harm or distress to others. there fore by labelling yourself in such a way you are adding to your own sense of alianation and dehumanising yourself.
 
Nov 2009
8
0
[quote author=SWM link=topic=1167.msg6333#msg6333 date=1258835022]
to reiterate nothing you are presenting is new and none of it is specific to psychopathic personalities. [/quote]
Maybe.

We have posted this article on twenty or thirty discussion groups and got about 200 replies. About 15 said, 'Yes, I see just what you mean'. The other 185 made sorts of denials and systemic-criticisms.

It could be one of those "The Physical Impossibility of Death in the Mind of Someone Living" things, or in this case 'in the Mind of Someone non-Psychotic'.

there fore by labelling yourself in such a way you are adding to your own sense of alianation and dehumanising yourself.
This is why Iggy Pop and the Punks spat on eachother. Dirt. The dust. The lowest and most despised thing; that puts us level with all, the common denominator. This is why the psychopath is also the only impartial moral judge, the psychopath has no personal interest: no hope and no fear. We all agree that 'prejudice' is a bad thing; we all have misgivings about a biased investigator.

to reiterate nothing you are presenting is new
LOL! But we'd say the lesson has not yet quite been learned.


Good sources here on OverSocialization and neurosis (enemies to the psychopathic hero, think Alex Cross):

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Industrial_Society_and_Its_Future

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciSwapSOJwU


This is gonna knock your socks off, but we also maintain that homosexuality, pedophilia, depression, and schizophrenia are choices.
 
Aug 2009
366
0
Australia
Vana,

the bottom line for anyone in a relationship with a sociopath/psychopath is that it is not a lot of fun for them but a fair bit of fun for the culprit.
Generally the events are destructive and cause distress for those concerned.

The basic idea we should be moving toward is behavior that has positive consequences?
Poor consequences are a bit of a problem for people and perhaps why we are even discussing in this area.
rebellion and creative thought are one thing and destructive behavior is a very different thing.

Essentially the psychopath does not want resistance from the victim and this is what i mean by the "one way street" idea.
The psychopath wants freedom to do what they like and be distanced from the consequences. No you can't have this and it is a silly notion.

Clearly you you have no practical experience with the grief that psychopathic behavior inflicts on people, and i might add that it is mostly those who just happen to be there at the time or those who are weak.
The psychopath is really just a bully , who will often chose his victim because there is little possibility of resistance or threat.

This is the fundemental problem with what you appear to support.
You are in fact supporting the idea that it is Ok to be destructive to others?

Destructive behavior is perhaps sometimes a choice for the culprit and most the victim has little say in the matter. The idea of responsible behavior is that we have some equality in what we chose and say in determining life-outcomes.

Psychopathic behavior is very different to the pop-culture and you seem to intellectualise it as it is one and the same?

Essentially these misfits have a rule for themselves and a rule for others and when the tables are turned they protest terribly.

If you have had anything to do with these type of people you will know they are pretty unattractive to be around , cause endless grief to those around them , are habitual liars, deceitful and can turn any good situation into a mess very quickly .
Frankly i can't see anything good going for them?


Horton
 
Aug 2009
366
0
Australia
"This is why Iggy Pop and the Punks spat on eachother. Dirt. The dust. The lowest and most despised thing; that puts us level with all, the common denominator. This is why the psychopath is also the only impartial moral judge, the psychopath has no personal interest: no hope and no fear. We all agree that 'prejudice' is a bad thing; we all have misgivings about a biased investigator."

This does not hang together at all.
Punks actually had little idea of what they were doing it was all engineered by their manager .

Do you know the person i am talking about?

Pop-culture is a contrived reality and you seem to think it has the answers?


Horton
 

SWM

May 2008
2,314
1
It could be one of those "The Physical Impossibility of Death in the Mind of Someone Living" things, or in this case 'in the Mind of Someone non-Psychotic'.
in which case? the reason perhaps that you find difficulty in making your point is that you dont really have one. things that you try to attribute to psychopathic are not necessarily psychopathic they are just as much quaities of normal people and more likely those that are nonconformist and anti-establishment.

when i was clinically psychotic i was diagnosed psychotic because of one key factor that is crucial for diagnosis that is that my experiences, beliefs and behaviours where distressing to my self and other people.

as i developed and i began to understand my psychosis i was no longer distressed by my experiences and beliefs and thus my behaviours no longer distressed other people. my experiences, values and beliefs, did not change a great deal but i was no longer distressed and for reason i am not clinically psychotic anymore.

This is why Iggy Pop and the Punks spat on eachother. Dirt. The dust. The lowest and most despised thing; that puts us level with all, the common denominator.
that an individual feels that they have to degrade themselves in order to be equal is evidence to me of a dysfunctional thinking. why not allow other beings to be as they are and not have to compare them by equity of worth?


This is why the psychopath is also the only impartial moral judge, the psychopath has no personal interest: no hope and no fear. We all agree that 'prejudice' is a bad thing; we all have misgivings about a biased investigator.
the judgements of the psychopath lack the compassion and empathy required to make judgements that involve the welfare of others.


This is gonna knock your socks off, but we also maintain that homosexuality, pedophilia, depression, and schizophrenia are choices.
hey, i need to cut my toe nails. apparently that was an astounding revelation. did you also know that homosexuality was taken out of the DSM about 30 years ago.

peoples lives are more than choice, four labels that you present here are little bit more complex than a matter of choice. speaking as an individual that has had two of those labels and worked clinically with all four of those labels.
 
Nov 2009
8
0
[quote author=hortonpilot link=topic=1167.msg6335#msg6335 date=1258844809]
The psychopath wants freedom to do what they like and be distanced from the consequences. No you can't have this and it is a silly notion.[/quote]
The funny thing is hortonpilot, there are no consequences. The psychopath learns through experience that what the common person thinks is impossible is really very simple.

Have you ever violated a sacred taboo? At first your hands sweat, you feel nauseous, your mind is lit up.... But later you actually learn that nothing happens. It's like this: Columbus set sail to go around the Earth; people looked at him and said, no, no, it can't be done, you're on a suicide mission, it is the Devil! And so on. Columbus was brave to do it, for sure; but by the third and fourth voyage when people were still saying the Earth was flat, obviously what was Columbus thinking? He Laughed Out Loud for sure: LOL!



Could you climb Mt. Everest?

The only answer is Yes, otherwise you are fooling yourself; Mt. E has been climbed by seniors and cripples -- You are unstoppable!

Clearly you you have no practical experience with the grief that psychopathic behavior inflicts on people, and i might add that it is mostly those who just happen to be there at the time or those who are weak.
Who hasn't gotten the bad end of it?

Forgive and forget.

What doesn't kill me makes me stronger.

The psychopath is really just a bully , who will often chose his victim because there is little possibility of resistance or threat.
Bully and psychopath are different. Jesus and Gandhi for example were psychopaths but not bullies.

This is the fundemental problem with what you appear to support.
You are in fact supporting the idea that it is Ok to be destructive to others?
Frankly I am undecided if violence may be justified in support of the revolution. I did read Fanon of course, but non-violence does avoid the hypocrisy problem -- if that's a problem?

Destructive behavior is perhaps sometimes a choice for the culprit and most the victim has little say in the matter. The idea of responsible behavior is that we have some equality in what we chose and say in determining life-outcomes.
You are way off in straw-man-left-field now, so, no comment...

Psychopathic behavior is very different to the pop-culture and you seem to intellectualise it as it is one and the same?
It is up to the times and post-modern to take as sources a wide variety of media and 'class' of media. Anyhow, DSM-psychopaths are less violent than the population at large; and most go undetected anyhowX2.

Essentially these misfits have a rule for themselves and a rule for others and when the tables are turned they protest terribly.
Not exactly -- there are no rules at all. The worst is when we actually believe our own lies.

If you have had anything to do with these type of people you will know they are pretty unattractive to be around , cause endless grief to those around them , are habitual liars, deceitful and can turn any good situation into a mess very quickly .
Frankly i can't see anything good going for them?
A word has many directions of meaning; by Satanifying 'psychopath' we do a great deal of damage to not only ordinary garden variety psychopaths who are just that little bit happier in their day to day life, but also the extraordinary psychopaths (like me) who rise above the fear and hate that chain people down and so live amazing and fulfilled lives, -- and obviously also to those who we are leaving supposedly by their choice happy in slavery?

Pop-culture is a contrived reality and you seem to think it has the answers?
All reality is contrived. All argument is fallacy.
 
Aug 2009
366
0
Australia
SWM,

glad you made the journey to the other side.

How are your life-outcomes now?


"that an individual feels that they have to degrade themselves in order to be equal is evidence to me of a dysfunctional thinking."
This what it is all about i feel, dysfunctional thinking and i feel Vana is trying to elevate it to an art-form.
Dysfunctional thinking has consequences and often there is envy towards people who make different choices that produce more positive outcomes.
Dysfunctional don't have properly functioning lives which is why they are called dysfunctional .

As you say,
"the judgements of the psychopath lack the compassion and empathy required to make judgements that involve the welfare of others."
This important stuff ,a real distinction.

Frankly it is no fun being the psychopath most of the time and certainly no fun being in their area.
As we get more experienced in life we understand the difference between an interesting life and a dysfunctional one ?

The psychopath will happily shit in your bed just for a laugh or burn your house down
and the will blame you for being there .
It is never their fault.

The whole idea of the punk revolution was the idea of a Malcolm McLaren a hyper respectable semi-academic who made lots of money out of what ever he could.
He picked the most inept stupid and talentless people and created modern pop-culture .
He admitted in an interview it was more or less done for a bet and there was no artistic sincerity involved .
and i think he said people should not read to much into it.

Horton