Illusion in the mind

May 2011
884
0
Marble, N.C.
My friend Earl,
I understand all is atoms and energy manifested as objects materially. Atoms are formed as objects and we only see the objects and not the matter. Yet I see and feel concretely matter formed from matter as concrete material objects. Just because I do not see it does not mean it does not exist. I am having problems with admitting what I see is a illusion fantasy and is not material.

The part of life I see and feel is reality to me I cannot wrap my mind around life is a illusion. Illussions and fantasies are mind created. I believe what I see and feel is concrete material reality. I am biological materially created I am not a illusion. The question is will my mind which is esoteric and metaphysic live after I am dead. I am now beginning to believe Decartes "I think therefore I am" a spirit trapped within a body. Thoughts ? pl



[quote author=S. Earl Martin link=topic=2054.msg20896#msg20896 date=1343053046]
HMMM! First off nothing is concrete. Matter doesn't exist only energy. Everything is made up of occilating bits of energy. The reason we think something is solid? Is because the different energy fields repel each other. The earths field repels objects so they stay on top of the ground. Gravity is a different field that keeps us from flying into space. When something is seperated? It is just the molocules being torn apart, Or scattered. When I pick up my coffee cup to drink. The field of the cup is repeled by my hand and vice versa. The coffee is repeled by the inside of the cup, but when I swallow it the field inside my body is weak enough to allow it to be obsorbed. Liquids and gas have weak fields that allow objects to pass thru them. However this depends on the amount of force exerted.

We think objects are soild, but they are not. We think time passes, but it doesn't. It is all a matter of perspective. We view things from a very narrow vantage point and we think that is all there is. It is like when people thought the earth was flat. They looked around at what they could see and it looked flat. They didn't think about what they couldn't see over the horizion. In physics there are a number of theories about what time and space are. Multiple dimensions, universes, and realities. Some can actually be shown to exist using mathamatics. Plus the string theory and information being compressed in black holes. What we think we see is not at all what is really happening. So life is an illusion.
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Nov 2008
2,536
0
U.S.A.
Let me qualify the statement. Our "perception" of reality is an illusion. An example is a dream. In a dream everything seems real. We can even fool ourselves into feeling things or hearing things, but it is an illusion. Aspects of "true reality" are not what we think they are so in that way it is an illusion. That doesn't mean all aspects of reality are an illusion. Just those we perceive incorrectly from our limited perspective. However as I stated before some theories suggest that all of reality is like a dream or computer program. If this correct all of reality is an illusion. There is a theory that we are basically a video game from the future. That people are running a program that is like the Matrix. Who knows?
 
May 2011
884
0
Marble, N.C.
My Friend S.Earl Martin,
I have seen unformed matter but I only see and believe what (I) see and my belief is material. Why did God create the Earth and all in it as formed matter? Then Jesus said "the Earth didn't recognize him as God incarnate"? The wikipedia definition says our mind sees the material world and transfers that picture into us. The brain sees and translates that picture into us to believe.

How does the brain do this? I have been on drugs and hallucinated. I have believed a thought (which gave it the thought power) for me to believe the thought which was a illusion. Satan beguilled Adam and Eve as he has the whole world. At what point do we admit we have been deluded by society Satan Who? Thoughts , pljames




[quote author=S. Earl Martin link=topic=2054.msg20901#msg20901 date=1343059477]
Let me qualify the statement. Our "perception" of reality is an illusion. An example is a dream. In a dream everything seems real. We can even fool ourselves into feeling things or hearing things, but it is an illusion. Aspects of "true reality" are not what we think they are so in that way it is an illusion. That doesn't mean all aspects of reality are an illusion. Just those we perceive incorrectly from our limited perspective. However as I stated before some theories suggest that all of reality is like a dream or computer program. If this correct all of reality is an illusion. There is a theory that we are basically a video game from the future. That people are running a program that is like the Matrix. Who knows?
[/quote]
 
Feb 2011
1,196
1
USA
pljames: in reference to your#17 about; you wrote;"I asked if a thought had validity if believed & if not believed it was just a word.?"
"I asked if a thought had validity if believed....." That's the crux of my message. "Believing" does not make thought valid; "Matching facts" does.
If 'believing' made thoughts valid, we would all be better off than MIDAS.
Beliving that 'believing makes any thought valid' has been 'programed/conditioned' into us as we learned language. (It's putting the horse before the cart.)
'Believing' a thought BEFORE you know what it is leads to the 'current condition' of mental health or rather the 'shortage of mental health'.
Scientific Method works just the opposite of the 'subliminal consenus belief', scientists start with a thought/theory and test it to see if it "fits facts' before they declare it's 'valid'.
 
May 2011
884
0
Marble, N.C.
Makes sense. The thought leads to the facts proven. I think a word and my memory validates the facts in my memory? pljames



[quote author=sakoz link=topic=2054.msg20904#msg20904 date=1343065399]
pljames: in reference to your#17 about; you wrote;"I asked if a thought had validity if believed & if not believed it was just a word.?"
"I asked if a thought had validity if believed....." That's the crux of my message. "Believing" does not make thought valid; "Matching facts" does.
If 'believing' made thoughts valid, we would all be better off than MIDAS.
Beliving that 'believing makes any thought valid' has been 'programed/conditioned' into us as we learned language. (It's putting the horse before the cart.)
'Believing' a thought BEFORE you know what it is leads to the 'current condition' of mental health or rather the 'shortage of mental health'.
Scientific Method works just the opposite of the 'subliminal consenus belief', scientists start with a thought/theory and test it to see if it "fits facts' before they declare it's 'valid'.
[/quote]
 
Feb 2011
1,196
1
USA
In #2 and #4 above, Enigma provided the Rubin Vase and Necker Cube.
Consider this; put a piece of rope on the ground and 'believe' it's a snake; you can't deceive yourself, yet in other context, dim light, someone else left a piece of rope, you look at the rope but you see snake, how come it 'worked' in the second instance?
The "believing" in the second instance was NOT consciously done, the believing was "covert/subliminal" that's why it 'worked', we do 'subliminal believing' many times a day and experience 'minor annoyances' to 'road rage' and cases like the guy shooting in the theatre, etc. Keeping guns away is not the answer, get people to stop 'subliminally believing' some thought-images are real, the rope-snake is lived out many times everday only different situations and images, but 'images' are always involved, always 'believed' real.
 
Nov 2008
2,536
0
U.S.A.
I would agree that altering peoples level of awareness would help stop a lot of pain and suffering. This would include false beliefs. The example of the shooter is a good one. More people are killed everyday by drunk drivers and cigerettes than with guns. Poor diet is the leading cause of death. Either not enough food or the wrong foods. I don't see these same anti gun people complaining about that? False beliefs thru out history have lead to prejudice and even war. It is the us and them attitude. When humans realize it should be just us maybe we can learn to get along and won't need guns?
 
Feb 2011
1,196
1
USA
Yes; I'm trying to 'promote' awareness of the situation. It could be summed up by;"Father forgive them, for they know not what they do".
 
May 2011
884
0
Marble, N.C.
Sakov, Excellent post, you've made my year. pl


[quote author=sakoz link=topic=2054.msg20949#msg20949 date=1343237198]
Yes; I'm trying to 'promote' awareness of the situation. It could be summed up by;"Father forgive them, for they know not what they do".
[/quote]
 
Nov 2008
2,536
0
U.S.A.
A great deal of people are trying to promote awarness of the situation. Many have died trying to do this or have been imprisioned. They may not be practicing the same methodology as Sakoz? But they are striving for the same goals. Forgiveness is one of the keys to this. Selflessness is another. Humility is another.
So many people practice their religious faith like a club and only care about the other members of their club. Or even just themselves. Jesus said whoever would be greatest? Must humble themselves and be the least. Peace!