Illusion in the mind

May 2011
884
1
Marble, N.C.
[quote author=sakoz link=topic=2054.msg15120#msg15120 date=1307141743]
Thank you very much Enigma; I was hoping, you could put it side by side with Rubin Vase.
Sometimes I can 'edit' (add to a post and sometimes not)is there a time limit on when you can edit?

pljames; " For our next trick..." lol
I'm trying to explain how we use our own images to "trick" ourselves into fear, anxiety, stress, dysfunctional behavior by 'conditioning' ourselves like Pavlov's dogs, and not recognizing WE'RE doing it to our selves.
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That doesn't say much for rational/logical thinking. I see feel sense and believe what I see feel sense...is real. I am awake aware and conscious. And the opposite is darkness nothing. I will stick with conscious be it a illusion or not.pl
 
Nov 2008
2,536
0
U.S.A.
This brings to mind the truth untruth proposition. If an event happens and A occurs. Then someone in power claims A did not occur, but B occured. If enough people believe B occured? Does B become real or true to an extent? People begin acting on B as if it occured. B is written in history books as truth. People actually believe B to be true. Time goes on and there is no way to disprove B. Maybe Paul Revere did warn the British? LOL!
 
Dec 2008
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[quote author=S. Earl Martin link=topic=2054.msg15255#msg15255 date=1307643904]
This brings to mind the truth untruth proposition. If an event happens and A occurs. Then someone in power claims A did not occur, but B occured. If enough people believe B occured? Does B become real or true to an extent? People begin acting on B as if it occured. B is written in history books as truth. People actually believe B to be true. Time goes on and there is no way to disprove B. Maybe Paul Revere did warn the British? LOL!
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A is still true and B is still false. Subjective beliefs do not affect objective reality. A wise man once said, "the beautiful thing about science is that it works whether or not you believe in it." That's why evolution is a real and ongoing process whether or not people believe in it.
 
Nov 2008
2,536
0
U.S.A.
Subjective beliefs do not affect objective reality.

I disagree the subject belief would be B. Because people believe it and are acting on it reality is being changed. So subjective reality would be changed? No?
 
Dec 2008
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nil
Your original proposition was that "Event A occurred, but the powers that be convinced people that Event A did not occur and that Event B occurred. Therefore, is Event B a real/true event?" I'm saying that no, Event B is not real and is not true because subjective beliefs do not affect past objective reality. People can believe and act on false beliefs and live their life as if the false belief was true, but this does not change the objective truth value of reality. For example, Young Earth Creationists sincerely believe and live their life as if evolution is false and the Earth is less than 10,000 years old. But these beliefs do not change the facts that evolution is a real and ongoing process and that the Earth is 4.6 million years old.
 
Nov 2008
2,536
0
U.S.A.
Okay I understand now. Thank's. Also I believe because time is based on the speed of light and the distance from one object to the next. That the earth and everything else exists forever somewhere.
 
Nov 2008
2,536
0
U.S.A.
Here let me explain. First the belief that the Earth is 4.6 million years old is not a fact. In order for it to be a fact it would require a 4.6 million year old standard of measurement. So it is a theory or a belief. It is based on information that indicates a possibility.

Now as to my statement about time and space. Many physicists have used the comparesion between sound waves and light including Einstien. He demonstarted that as sound waves come toward you they compress and as they pass by they stretch. Light reacts the same way. So does time.

So for example someone is hammering a board. Bang bang bang! To them the sound is instantanious. If someone else is observing at a distance they see the person swing the hammer, but no sound. Then Bang bang bang! They hear the sound. This is because light and sound travel at different speeds. The two people hear the sound at different times, but it is actually happening at different times. The same is true with light. If someone 1 light year from the seen looked at the person hammering? They would see a year back in time. It would be the present to them and from there prespective it would be happening in real time. Just as the sound reached the different people at different times so the light would reach at different times. The further out you go the further back in time. From the person hammering it would be the past. From the distant person it would be the present. Because light takes time to travel, just as the two sounds happen at different times. The two events happen at different times even though they are the same event. So in theory everything is happening somewhere forever. The cosmos is infinite. The passage of time is an illusion based on perspective.
 
May 2011
884
1
Marble, N.C.
S Earl Martin,
In one of your post you stated (Can you be more derict in defining that statement)? The reason I asked is I am having thoughts about Decates's "I think therefore I am" statement. When we are brain dead we are dead! Yet the mind is metaphysical. Can the mind live on after death? pl
 
May 2011
884
1
Marble, N.C.
Subject vs object.
Subject (Life is a illusion). Object (observing a concrete object). How can a concrete form be a illusion? Drugs I understand. I see and know that concrete structure is real therefore reality is not a illusion. Am I misunderstand the wording, life is a illusion? pljames
 
Nov 2008
2,536
0
U.S.A.
HMMM! First off nothing is concrete. Matter doesn't exist only energy. Everything is made up of occilating bits of energy. The reason we think something is solid? Is because the different energy fields repel each other. The earths field repels objects so they stay on top of the ground. Gravity is a different field that keeps us from flying into space. When something is seperated? It is just the molocules being torn apart, Or scattered. When I pick up my coffee cup to drink. The field of the cup is repeled by my hand and vice versa. The coffee is repeled by the inside of the cup, but when I swallow it the field inside my body is weak enough to allow it to be obsorbed. Liquids and gas have weak fields that allow objects to pass thru them. However this depends on the amount of force exerted.

We think objects are soild, but they are not. We think time passes, but it doesn't. It is all a matter of perspective. We view things from a very narrow vantage point and we think that is all there is. It is like when people thought the earth was flat. They looked around at what they could see and it looked flat. They didn't think about what they couldn't see over the horizion. In physics there are a number of theories about what time and space are. Multiple dimensions, universes, and realities. Some can actually be shown to exist using mathamatics. Plus the string theory and information being compressed in black holes. What we think we see is not at all what is really happening. So life is an illusion.