How do YOU deal with depression?

Jan 2012
40
0
New York
[quote author=SWM link=topic=3056.msg22248#msg22248 date=1352147498]
when people come for therapy they quite often report that they are suffering from things that they are not really suffering from. so there are a tools developed to help clinicians determine what kind of problems a patient is presenting with. these are not perfect or foolproof but provide guidance for discernment.

usually depression is diagnosed using either the ICD10 or the DSM-IV-tr.
NICE guidelines use ICD10.
People diagnosed with Depression using this diagnostic tool are used in the studies.

recovery means that the person no longer meets the criteria for diagnosis. relapse means that the person has recovered and has returned to meeting the criteria for diagnosis.

Studies are randomly controlled. at least 50% of people receiving the psychological interventions recommended by NICE will achieve recovery.
this is equivalent to pharmacotherapy but with pharmacotherapy there are higher relapse rates than with the recommended psychological interventions.

the quantity and quality of studies required for NICE recommendations is extremely high. this is not an organization set up to to promote their own medicines or therapies.
that all.
[/quote]

I know all that. How does it address my points?
I can only assume your response is disagreement to what I said even though it doesn't address what I said.
When someone disagrees with me, I'm interested in hearing exactly why. It seems that isn't going to happen.
Thanks anyway.
 

SWM

May 2008
2,314
0
it is not that i disagree per se but we have 1000' s of studies carried out in the field and peer reviewed which come to an agreement of what depression is, how it is diagnosed and discussing the most effective methods of treatment.
 
Jan 2012
40
0
New York
[quote author=SWM link=topic=3056.msg22256#msg22256 date=1352173969]
it is not that i disagree per se
[/quote]
Sounds like your running for office.

[quote author=SWM link=topic=3056.msg22256#msg22256 date=1352173969]
but we have 1000' s of studies carried out in the field and peer reviewed which come to an agreement of what depression is, how it is diagnosed and discussing the most effective methods of treatment.
[/quote]

Last try.
I'm saying the studies are WORTHLESS!
Obviously you disagree.

Here's a study
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199403/oops-very-embarrassing-story
 

SWM

May 2008
2,314
0
the study referred to in the article you linked to was published in 1994 and the evidence in it isnt very strong. they offer two studies as the source of evidence. one of which is selective in its reference utilising only part of the conclusions of the research.

the article itself has agreed with my comments here anyway. that psychological therapies are effective and can be delivered in a variety of fornats including self help books cCBT etc.

yes i disagree that the studies which have proven the effectiveness of psychological treatments for depression are worthless. here is why www.nice.org.uk and www.iapt.nhs.uk


edit: see also http://www.nice.org.uk/aboutnice/howwework/how_we_work.jsp
 

SWM

May 2008
2,314
0
sorry.. i had problems using quotes from my phone so i came online to continue.

opening sentence of the article says.
from article said:
Cites a study which concludes that psychotherapy doesn't work very well at all.
this isnt even a sentence and is contradicted by the closing conlusions of the article.

from article said:
However psychotherapy works--whether it heals, or even treats, what ails you--people want it and like it. (There's research that says so.) On the average, psychotherapy offers more benefits than no therapy--it just may be that much simpler interventions yield similar results.
 
Jan 2012
40
0
New York
The sentence is really, "Psychology Today cites a study which concludes that psychotherapy doesn't work very well at all."
It's just how a graphic artist laid out the article.

Studies in psychology are far from conclusive, or evidence, because of the large number of variables that are impossible to account for.

The article doesn't say that psychological therapies are effective, nor does it contradict itself.
It says we don't know what is effective.

If going to psychotherapy is beneficial, but the benefit comes from something ancillary to the therapy itself, then determining
what is really beneficial could be of great help and paying big bucks for therapy would be nuts.

Believing in something that can't be proven is faith. Faith can be highly valuable. I have a fair amount of faith in many things.
But I admit my feelings and ideas are based on faith. The "profession" needs to do the same, and stop charging rates higher than
tarot card readers.
 

SWM

May 2008
2,314
0
[quote author=sorter link=topic=3056.msg22261#msg22261 date=1352235518]
But I admit my feelings and ideas are based on faith. The "profession" needs to do the same, and stop charging rates higher than
tarot card readers.


[/quote]This is due to your countries public health policies. Your health care providers operate under perverse incentives, health care providers in your country profit from people getting and staying ill.


while studies may have many flaws and cannot account for all variables. we are able to show in a predictable and repeatable way that if someone with certain symptoms receives certain interventions that beneficial consequences occur for a majority.
 
Jan 2012
40
0
New York
[quote author=SWM link=topic=3056.msg22262#msg22262 date=1352239705]
while studies may have many flaws and cannot account for all variables. we are able to show in a predictable and repeatable way that if someone with certain symptoms receives certain interventions that beneficial consequences occur for a majority.
[/quote]

If you can't account for all variables, as you agree, then you can't know if what the therapist does is beneficial or not.
A rational and scientific test would remove the therapist to determine if the therapist has an effect, or something ancillary to the therapist has an effect.
I'll bet most anything, no one in the field would consider such a test because it would be an affront to their faith, and income.