Hello! (Introduction)

Oct 2020
5
0
Greece
Hello everyone!

I started looking into psychology through the need of self-improvement, about 15 years ago. I think all of us carry flaws and issues in our behaviour, through our daily lives, our workplace, romantic relationships and family. Those issues not only hold us back personally from becoming what we really want and what will bring more moments of happiness and joy into our lives, but also those issues affect, in one or another way, sometimes more, sometimes less, in more or less significant ways, all of the people that were, are or will be part of our lives.

Lately I am reading for psychotic behaviours and disorders, such as narcissists or sociopaths in general and the way they traumatise people, although they have been traumatized themselves in the first place during their childhood, by their parents or events that really break you as a person. I find it difficult to define that thin red line of where the responsibility should lean more. I have probably some "harsh" opinions and I would like some other points of view in that matter.

Probably I need to open a thread about that, excuse me for my English or wrong terminology. I am not a psychologist. Just wanna learn more!
 
Mar 2020
243
19
US
I've been avoiding narcissism my whole life, but I gear towards self hatred. So I'm familiar with the idea of a broken person hurting other people.

It's in our inclination to believe that our lives meant something and that the lessons we learned were important. Also no one wants to admit that their childhood wasn't happy. Many times our childhoods are the only good memories we've ever had. And for me to say that my parents were monsters and my childhood was insufficient makes me feel like an ungrateful little brat which just makes me hate myself more as well as hating myself because I learned useless lessons.

If the lessons I learned were all lies, why would any other lessons be the truth. There must be truth in my initial programming. Resocialization is never better than the initial socialization. I can look at my youth and my "friends" in school and think that there was something wrong with me, but where were those "friends" when I was hurting?

The capitalism of society requires that no matter what happens to us we are always doing something to build. If we are not building, we are destroying other people or killing ourselves.

The idea behind hurting anyone because we have been hurt is an attempt to justify the fact that we were correct to be corrected through pain. It is an acceptance of pain as the only motivator and pretty much the only thing anyone ever experiences who is not dead. There are pleasurable pains, the pains that we desensitize ourselves to and accept as parts of our identity. The unpleasurable pains are the pains that make us feel like our identities are dead. "Everything they've ever known, ever loved, ever dreamt is dead." - iced earth.

There is always a temptation to conquer the earth and establish narrower boundaries and anhilate what we do not wish to understand. This is because if we have an identity, we must reject other identities. An everything identity is completely immobile. Its like trying to walk north and south at the same time.

The idea that all action has equal and opposite reactions means that there will always be resistance to complete overhaul. This is the phenomenon between every conflict ever, and the reason peace = death.

If you have any identity you will put it on your children and or other people. It is the attempt to spread understanding of yourself that feeds the desire to conquer the earth. The very fact that we have identities, you could say is hazardous if you want to look at things globally. But imagine life without identity? There'd be no reason to ever chose anything on an individual level. So someone else has to give us our identity, by trying to get us to understand them, which is called socialization or resocialization in sociology. And we as followers pass on that understanding.

Utopia = death. Learn it for yourself and become demobilized or be satisfied with the discomfort of every day life and earn money doing something stupid that someone else wants you to do, whose happily stupid enough to value anything at all.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
 
Oct 2020
5
0
Greece
I've been avoiding narcissism my whole life, but I gear towards self hatred. So I'm familiar with the idea of a broken person hurting other people.

It's in our inclination to believe that our lives meant something and that the lessons we learned were important. Also no one wants to admit that their childhood wasn't happy. Many times our childhoods are the only good memories we've ever had. And for me to say that my parents were monsters and my childhood was insufficient makes me feel like an ungrateful little brat which just makes me hate myself more as well as hating myself because I learned useless lessons.

If the lessons I learned were all lies, why would any other lessons be the truth. There must be truth in my initial programming. Resocialization is never better than the initial socialization. I can look at my youth and my "friends" in school and think that there was something wrong with me, but where were those "friends" when I was hurting?

The capitalism of society requires that no matter what happens to us we are always doing something to build. If we are not building, we are destroying other people or killing ourselves.

The idea behind hurting anyone because we have been hurt is an attempt to justify the fact that we were correct to be corrected through pain. It is an acceptance of pain as the only motivator and pretty much the only thing anyone ever experiences who is not dead. There are pleasurable pains, the pains that we desensitize ourselves to and accept as parts of our identity. The unpleasurable pains are the pains that make us feel like our identities are dead. "Everything they've ever known, ever loved, ever dreamt is dead." - iced earth.

There is always a temptation to conquer the earth and establish narrower boundaries and anhilate what we do not wish to understand. This is because if we have an identity, we must reject other identities. An everything identity is completely immobile. Its like trying to walk north and south at the same time.

The idea that all action has equal and opposite reactions means that there will always be resistance to complete overhaul. This is the phenomenon between every conflict ever, and the reason peace = death.

If you have any identity you will put it on your children and or other people. It is the attempt to spread understanding of yourself that feeds the desire to conquer the earth. The very fact that we have identities, you could say is hazardous if you want to look at things globally. But imagine life without identity? There'd be no reason to ever chose anything on an individual level. So someone else has to give us our identity, by trying to get us to understand them, which is called socialization or resocialization in sociology. And we as followers pass on that understanding.

Utopia = death. Learn it for yourself and become demobilized or be satisfied with the discomfort of every day life and earn money doing something stupid that someone else wants you to do, whose happily stupid enough to value anything at all.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

Thanks a lot for your answer and for taking the time to get deeper into it.

If I understand correctly, what you are saying is that passing your identity to other people, even if your identity is "abusive", is just part of the circle of life that we all have to accept as there is no such thing as utopia?

As I mentioned, English is not my native language so I want to be sure that I understand the main meaning behind your point of view before answering.

Thanks again
 
Mar 2020
243
19
US
I'm sorry for being so grim, but I have several mental illnesses, and I've been studying my recovery for a few years. I should not be taken as an authority.

As an abusive and self abusive person I've resorted to reclusion and I've felt suicidal many times. My only consolation was to prove to myself that I am not really an individual idea but that my brain is made of input and it is an illusion that I am alive.

Therefore pain is ok because being "hurt" is only a chemical reaction.

I could feel positive if the feeling of happiness was not demonized in my vicinity.

My point was that as a pure individual, you must hurt other people, and as a pure globalist, you must hurt yourself. The balance is impossibly confusing, and impossible to perfect in the world. The fluctuation is inevitable and will always cause problems. When narcisits, sociopaths, etc, hurt others it is because they have been forced by outside powers to focus completely on themselves, and in order to get ahead, that pleasure and money must be taken from someone else in order to be given to the person.

The solution would be to unhurt them and make them love something or someone or everyone, but once you've found the pleasure of taking from others, there's really no reason to go backwards from that state of self justification.

You may think of a more global justice and get a kick out of the "he deserves to be punished" high, but it is just the global sense of justice rather than the group or individual sense of justice that your opponent feels.

And if you truly want global justice you have to be basically die yourself and everyone else. Because all deserve to die, because none of us can possibly be truly alive as long as others are alive to compete with us.

Therefore since anyone in order to stay alive must live off the misfortune of others, and because not all can possibly live or even eat and drink (think about Africa) you might feel justified to look at the "bad guys" as people who have been forced into their state of perverted pleasure by outside forces that denied them access to civil dignity, then they got used to the satisfaction of hurting others, and they cannot escape because nothing is more satisfying to them.

This is not to say that they do not deserve to die for the benefit of perhaps the rest of humanity, it is just an explanation of their state. And the idea of humanity being complete is impossible because the balance between self and the universe is impossibly complex and inconceivable.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
 
Oct 2020
5
0
Greece
I'm sorry for being so grim, but I have several mental illnesses, and I've been studying my recovery for a few years. I should not be taken as an authority.

As an abusive and self abusive person I've resorted to reclusion and I've felt suicidal many times. My only consolation was to prove to myself that I am not really an individual idea but that my brain is made of input and it is an illusion that I am alive.

Therefore pain is ok because being "hurt" is only a chemical reaction.

I could feel positive if the feeling of happiness was not demonized in my vicinity.

My point was that as a pure individual, you must hurt other people, and as a pure globalist, you must hurt yourself. The balance is impossibly confusing, and impossible to perfect in the world. The fluctuation is inevitable and will always cause problems. When narcisits, sociopaths, etc, hurt others it is because they have been forced by outside powers to focus completely on themselves, and in order to get ahead, that pleasure and money must be taken from someone else in order to be given to the person.

The solution would be to unhurt them and make them love something or someone or everyone, but once you've found the pleasure of taking from others, there's really no reason to go backwards from that state of self justification.

You may think of a more global justice and get a kick out of the "he deserves to be punished" high, but it is just the global sense of justice rather than the group or individual sense of justice that your opponent feels.

And if you truly want global justice you have to be basically die yourself and everyone else. Because all deserve to die, because none of us can possibly be truly alive as long as others are alive to compete with us.

Therefore since anyone in order to stay alive must live off the misfortune of others, and because not all can possibly live or even eat and drink (think about Africa) you might feel justified to look at the "bad guys" as people who have been forced into their state of perverted pleasure by outside forces that denied them access to civil dignity, then they got used to the satisfaction of hurting others, and they cannot escape because nothing is more satisfying to them.

This is not to say that they do not deserve to die for the benefit of perhaps the rest of humanity, it is just an explanation of their state. And the idea of humanity being complete is impossible because the balance between self and the universe is impossibly complex and inconceivable.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
Regardless my personal opinion, or yours, there should be a thing called "common logic" in society. I say it should, because I realise more and more that it goes extinct. The world will never be perfect, I agree on that. And why should be? There is no such thing as utopia and I agree on that too. The fact that we are struggling towards improvement though, to avoid dark times such as middle age, is a fact filtered through common logic. That's why we build societies, that's why we create rules (law). Do they work properly? Not always. Is there corruption in justice? Of course. There will always be. But we try. We have to.

Here comes my personal opinion based on that "common logic", which I try to adopt in my very existence and my every move as a member of society.

My freedom ends where yours begins.

I face several personal problems and issues. And it doesn't matter if they are more or less significant than yours. For me, they are the most important problems in this world. And I bet you value your problems the same way. They are more important than mine, from your perspective. Should my problems affect your life? I don't think so. Do you know me? Do you owe me something? Are you obliged for any reason to carry my problems on your shoulders? Maybe my family or friends do if I am lucky enough. But why YOU?

I don't say that it's easy to have that kind of self control. But we are obliged as human beings to take responsibility for our selves at some point, at least as adults. We are obliged to work hard, really hard, to solve our problems, or at least to restrict them to the point that they are not affecting other people's lives beyond our own anymore.

Why are we obliged to think of ourselves without impacting society? Because if for example I hurt your kids, I don't think you would care that much about my childhood issues or my mental illness.
 
Mar 2020
243
19
US
I understand you well. And that's the conundrum of individual impact on society. I learned in a humble political science class that the fact that there are two roles makes the ultimate conundrum.

You have politicians who will bail me out to vote for the rights of the minority over the majority in a eleanor delano roosevelt fashion, and you have judges and police who will give me death sentence in a white hat black hat cowboy flick fahsion.

In order to be at peace I have to accept that I deserve punishment and I have to chose at age 32 what am I going to die for, myself or you. It's much easier on my soul to take punishment as I will not experience the full pleasure of innocent pleasure, because there is no innocent pleasure or guilty pleasure because of the conundrum.

So I have to suffer for causes, and my only freedom currently is to chose who I suffer and die for.

Whether these causes have any hope or actual value is based on what me and possibly others believe. But belief is completely invalid, if I look at the conundrum.

I can die for my parents, my girlfriend, the gospel, or my friends in africa, but I can only land on one. My life is boiled down to this handful of causes on a roulette table, giving me a variety of problems to solve to try to redeem myself.

Because redemption is all I really want.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
 
Dec 2020
14
0
Indonesia

Regardless my personal opinion, or yours, there should be a thing called "common logic" in society. I say it should, because I realise more and more that it goes extinct. The world will never be perfect, I agree on that. And why should be? There is no such thing as utopia and I agree on that too. The fact that we are struggling towards improvement though, to avoid dark times such as middle age, is a fact filtered through common logic. That's why we build societies, that's why we create rules (law). Do they work properly? Not always. Is there corruption in justice? Of course. There will always be. But we try. We have to.

Here comes my personal opinion based on that "common logic", which I try to adopt in my very existence and my every move as a member of society.

My freedom ends where yours begins.

I face several personal problems and issues. And it doesn't matter if they are more or less significant than yours. For me, they are the most important problems in this world. And I bet you value your problems the same way. They are more important than mine, from your perspective. Should my problems affect your life? I don't think so. Do you know me? Do you owe me something? Are you obliged for any reason to carry my problems on your shoulders? Maybe my family or friends do if I am lucky enough. But why YOU?

I don't say that it's easy to have that kind of self control. But we are obliged as human beings to take responsibility for our selves at some point, at least as adults. We are obliged to work hard, really hard, to solve our problems, or at least to restrict them to the point that they are not affecting other people's lives beyond our own anymore.

Why are we obliged to think of ourselves without impacting society? Because if for example I hurt your kids, I don't think you would care that much about my childhood issues or my mental illness.
 
Dec 2020
14
0
Indonesia