Beliefs and Perceptions Determine Experience

Nov 2008
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I call them like I see them. If you got your feelings hurt again then that is still making my point. Sorry though if you took offense.
Yes you left something out a practical application.

Practicing it unconsciously? So you see cause and effect. That would make it conscious. I still don't get how this is supposed to work? How is this supposed to actually help someone deal with "false beliefs or thoughts or whatever"? Don't give me some vague, lame example that is just an evasion. I am tired of that. Spell it out in real life terms. What is the fundemental mechinsim at work. This does this so that this happens. If there is not a A+B= C it is all a bunch of smoke and mirrors.
 
Nov 2008
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You were using terminology that hard science has been using and I had someone talking to me at the same time I posted that. I thought it was from hard science so that part was addressed to him. I guess that is just evidance of my human imperfection.
SO EXCUSE ME!
 
Feb 2011
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Earl; we got that cleared up, thanks. You can see how that 'change of pace' was unexpected while reading, :)
 
Feb 2011
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S.Earl Martin:"you left something out". "spell it out. "If there is not A+B=C then....."
Is the rope A + B the image of snake, =C the feeling of fear? Please see the role of involuntary reactions are not spelled out as 'practical applications".
There's more to it than meets the eye, some of this you have to experience as insight, a realization, understanding, something that comes from WITHIN you.
Your used to a very different way of learning, so i understand your frustration, but is that frustration caused by me?
 
Nov 2008
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Cause and effect applies in all situations. Involuntary or not. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Actually A rope + B image of snake in mind = feeling of fear is a good example. If you take your premises and use discriptions like this. ( By the way these are not my discriptions) they are how scientific therom is derived. Then your ideas will have more credence. It will allow a standard of measurement. It will allow them to be proved. This is how formulas are written. Now this is a very basic example and in order to make it meet scientific critea you will need to make it more all inclusive. Something that can be applied to a number of situations equally. Like the action reaction example. This a practical application although it is like I said a very basic one. I hope we are getting somewhere?
 
Feb 2011
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S.Earl Martin: I too hope we are getting somewhere,- "cause and effect applies in all situations". Subliminal/unrecognized beliefs are "cause" of 'experienced effects'. Unrecognized causes are not easily changed, how can they if you don't,know what they are.? Scientific Method "ferrets" such believed thoughts out into the 'light of awareness'.
When SWM and i were talking about the work of Benjamin Libet et al; did you 'follow'? You seem to completely ignore those 'works'.
Do you really think "analytical mind" is superior to "unconscious"? Your analytical mind did not function before you learned language; did it even exist or only in 'potential'? Just as we are born without talking but we are born with the 'equipment' to be able to talk soon as we "aquire" a language, any language. You seem to insist your analytical mind will find the answer, if there is one.
That in itself too is a 'belief'. We can get 'stuck' IN a belief like in a hampster wheel. ( remember, self-concept/ego is a subset IN thought-system).
If you can calm down/relax 'analyitical mind' and experience a insight, that insight would enable you to calm down even more. That is, your insight would have the effect on your 'conditioning' the way parasympathetic has on, and can 'check' our sympathic. Without insight from wisdom, it's not likely 'analytic mind' can do it. Look how many hundreds of years our race has tried to "subdue' our involuntary reactions into 'submission'. Your way is not the way. "Unless ye become as little children......." See the 'shift' required?
In order to understand 'beliefs'; what is the relation between understanding and beliefs? Isn't 'understanding' another word for "witnessing"? Understanding is the meta-perspective required.
If it was as simple as you expect, as expeditious as following a 'recipe', it would be a different world and society by now.
Are you going to attempt to "render" this information down so as to be "palpable grist" for your 'analytical mind'? You literally do not see where your 'coming from' because your IN the thought-system that needs to be observed. It's a catch-22, what wants to 'get out' and look back, is what 'stays put' and is to be looked at from meta-perspective. (don 't take this personally, it's the 'plight' of everyone, until they 'escape'.) Until then, everyone acts/reacts in accordance to their conditioning; isn't that what conditioing is about? You "signed up" for it when you learned language. Conditioning won't help you escape from it's 'cluches', we need our wisdom for that.
 
Nov 2008
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sakoz. I have three main problems with what you are saying and they are personal not from you. With the risk of giving hard science more information to twist out of context to try and use against me I will explain.
1. I am not a professional psycholigist and don't want to be one. So the information is only so useful to me. On the other hand it is useful to you and as I have said you need scientific validity.The information you quote is a method to achieve that goal. Building on other peoples research is part of the process.

2. As a whole I only understand what you are saying to a limited degree because the ideas are yours and I have a limited understanding of what you are saying.

3. My condition has returned and I am getting very sick again. This effects my ability to think clearly and to function for long periods of time. The reason I misread the post before, was I was confused due to fatigue. The conversation I was having was with my care taker reminding me to rest, take my medicine and eat. She could see my hands were shaking and I was showing symptoms of exhaustion. I feel this is important to do what I do, I really care about the people on this sight who need help and I feel it is part of my mission in life to try and help them before I go. That includes you. So I am not the one to consult about technical or professional information. Again that is why I hoped hard science might be able to assist you because he at first appeared to be knowledgable. Now I am not so sure. I think it might just be a load of crap.

Earl
 
Feb 2011
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S. Earl Martin: I'm sorry about your condition. My wife and i are both past the life expectancy charts. We often talk about which one of us might go first. We joke about being on "bonus" time,or borrowed time. I hope i go first; she takes care of all the banking and bill paying, etc. I can imagine how poorly I would eat if she happens to go first. Such is life.
I don't think i need help, I like "where I am psychologically". I just wanted to share how it feels to be in charge of thinking. (.Terrific) I gather you mean I need help in "pointing" other people in the direction of "finding" or "reconnecting" to their 'innate intelligence/wisdom". It really seems like a cruel joke for people to seek so earnestly 'outside' for what is already "inside". Jesus said; " The Kindom of Heaven Is Within." We only believe him when we too find or reconnect. Bless you Earl, I hope you reconnect before you depart.

Steve
 
Nov 2008
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I understand were you are coming from. I was diagonsed a number of years ago. I have been told several times I would be dead by now, but this time unless something changes they might be right. So I to am living on borrowed time. I also expected to go before my wife. Like yours, mine did the bills etc. and when she went it was a shock.
When I posted that information it was not to elicit sympathy. It was because you had asked me about some of the information you quoted. I was avoiding responding, but when it became clear you were becomeing frusrated because I wasn't reading it I felt it nessacary to explain.

I also try to help in what ever way I can, but if I am outside of my field of expertise? I have no problem telling people I am not comfortable answering them and will refer them to someone I think would be more appropriate. I am a realist.
 
Feb 2011
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Earl: "outside your field of expertise?" Speak from your heart and experience; and wisdom. I don't see wisdom as 'hierarchical'; I see it as "level playing field" for us all.