Are Our Perceptions "Outside" Our Brain ?

Mar 2010
2,346
0
PA, USA
I like your style sakoz. You are very stringent in your explanations (in this instance at least).
 
Feb 2011
1,196
1
USA
pert-5 ; " stringent"? I thought "factual". :)

"Indoctrination does not occur by infusion...". (sakoz)
"No indoctrination can occur that is not allowed by the will." (pert-5)
We both overlooked automated/subliminal believing and compliance /acquiescence.

Why do we believe erroneous thoughts? Because we 'made' 'believing' a subliminal habit. So any and all thoughts are 'eligible' for being believed, BEFORE
'arriving in awareness'. Not all thoughts are 'automatically' believed, so what criterion is being used as to 'which' thoughts are believed?

Is 'believing thought' the human way of living? Are 'believed thoughts' involved in spontaneity? Spontaneity is not learned/conditioned/ programmed; so why don't we do more of it?

Has human "domestication" succeeded yet?
 
May 2011
884
1
Marble, N.C.
My friend Sakov,
Pertaining to good and evil. It would seem good is positive and evil is negative. Therefore it would stand to reason evil creates bad things to us. On to our thoughts. It would seem we either (believe) or disbelieve a thought. We have the ability to accept or deny a thought. We also have a memory reserve of thoughts good and bad. Chemically our brain can add bad things, to happen to us. Is it possible for mind over matter (brain) to change the chemical from bad to good?

Surely subliminally speaking believe ourself well? Thoughts? pl




[quote author=sakoz link=topic=2867.msg20760#msg20760 date=1342048115]
Our "mental images" are "inside". We refer to both as "ours'; is that a 'slip of the tongue' or a "clue"?
What if 'authentic/empirical' perceptions are also inside our brain like mental images are? Intuitively that does not 'feel' right, so it would be a 'hard-sell'.
Why do we have mediators/arbitrators? Why are there disputes/arguments/disagreements? "We 'make' perceptions via 'believing thought images real".
If 'belief-perceptions' were external, in the public domain, they would be impersonal like air, gravity, rain, sunshine; indisputable facts.
"Belief-Perceptions" are personal,unique,idiosyncratic, more often than common shared ones. "Advice" comes from 'inside' people.
"Part" of us, automatically reacts to belief-perceptions "as if" they 'were' equivalent/duplicates of 'environmental perceptions'.
Rorschach projections do not only occur exclusively in clinics/labs. In daily living, we do not recognize doing it. "Recognition" is the 'key'.(antidote).

We can't see ourselves "covertly believing" a thought; but we experience the consequences nevertheless.
Does it 'feel right' to believe that emotional suffering, dysfunctional behavior, mistakes, stress are 'caused' by 'covert believing' ?
We can "cyberneticaly" veto covert believed conditioning via feedback wihout using devices like polygraphs, bio-feedback, GSR.

Experiment with this, repeating; "Im in a low mood, covertly believing some thought-image is real."
(This is true, if experiencing such, but can you realize it?)
Modify as needed; "I'm experiencing anger,covertly believing some though-image is real."
[/quote]
 
Feb 2011
1,196
1
USA
pljames: "Pertaining to good and evil." ( Do you 'subliminally believe' they are real?) Remember your 'ego' seemed real, as if a 'thing'.
'Good' and 'evil' are evaluations, that is , they are 'thoughts about......some people or events, etc. Thoughts are not real the way rocks are.

"We have the ability to accept or deny a thought." ONLY if you recognize the thought BEFORE it's 'subliminally believed', otherwise it's "too late".
You can't accept or deny a thought IF it comes into awareness ALREADY believed.

"....believe ourselves well?" Yes, look how 'expert' some people are at making themselves ill; we call that PSYCHOSOMATIC. If they just turned what they do "around", they could just as easily 'subliminally believe' themselves well and more.
(Placebo Effect shows people feeling well from "believing" a fake pill is medicine, the pill had nothing to do with their feeling well, it was their BELIEF.)
 
May 2011
884
1
Marble, N.C.
There was a study from the Korean war Mash outfit that proved the placebo effect or subliminal belief was real and did work. Is belief created by outside/inside stimuli, memory,experience ones history all of the latter? Thers's a pattern here somewhere. pljames

[quote author=sakoz link=topic=2867.msg20945#msg20945 date=1343232709]
pljames: "Pertaining to good and evil." ( Do you 'subliminally believe' they are real?) Remember your 'ego' seemed real, as if a 'thing'.
'Good' and 'evil' are evaluations, that is , they are 'thoughts about......some people or events, etc. Thoughts are not real the way rocks are.

"We have the ability to accept or deny a thought." ONLY if you recognize the thought BEFORE it's 'subliminally believed', otherwise it's "too late".
You can't accept or deny a thought IF it comes into awareness ALREADY believed.

"....believe ourselves well?" Yes, look how 'expert' some people are at making themselves ill; we call that PSYCHOSOMATIC. If they just turned what they do "around", they could just as easily 'subliminally believe' themselves well and more.
(Placebo Effect shows people feeling well from "believing" a fake pill is medicine, the pill had nothing to do with their feeling well, it was their BELIEF.)
[/quote]
 
Feb 2011
1,196
1
USA
Let's go to the 'heart of the matter' of 'believing'. "Believing" is a process/function, like running. Legs are necessary for running, it does not matter whos legs they are' The same with 'believing', thoughts are necessary, the content of the thoughts don't matter. Running and believing cannot be isolated per se. So what is the difference between a thought 'believed' and one 'not believed"? The 'believed' one evokes/stimulates "reaction/experience".
So when someone experiences emotional reactions, dysfunctional behavior, mistakes, stress, if they are not aware of the thoughts 'causing' those experiences, then it means that they "subliminally believe' some thought. And that causes needless/unnesseary/unwanted experiences. Of course when they don't know this they, attribute the environment as causing 'all' experience, after all they don't want to think their 'crazy' or 'possessed by demons'.
 
May 2011
884
1
Marble, N.C.
Excellent answer. And I thought I was going to hang out my shingle? Ha Ha! pl




[quote author=sakoz link=topic=2867.msg20954#msg20954 date=1343252188]
Let's go to the 'heart of the matter' of 'believing'. "Believing" is a process/function, like running. Legs are necessary for running, it does not matter whos legs they are' The same with 'believing', thoughts are necessary, the content of the thoughts don't matter. Running and believing cannot be isolated per se. So what is the difference between a thought 'believed' and one 'not believed"? The 'believed' one evokes/stimulates "reaction/experience".
So when someone experiences emotional reactions, dysfunctional behavior, mistakes, stress, if they are not aware of the thoughts 'causing' those experiences, then it means that they "subliminally believe' some thought. And that causes needless/unnesseary/unwanted experiences. Of course when they don't know this they, attribute the environment as causing 'all' experience, after all they don't want to think their 'crazy' or 'possessed by demons'.
[/quote]